Luis:
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to another episode of the DistantJob podcast, the podcast that’s all about building and leading awesome remote teams. I am your host as usual, Luis, and today with me I have my guest, Mickael Romaniello. Mickael is the founder and CEO of Invent Better, an IT consultant startup and also app developer, and he is the founder of Travel Better, which we will get more into in to the conversation, once we progress right into the conversation. But, Mickael, lovely to have you here. Thank you for coming.
Mickael:
Thank you for make me come here, and nice to meet you, Luis.
Luis:
It’s a pleasure. So I was told that some of your employees work remotely. That you have employees in regular countries, but I actually didn’t manage to figure out if your company, Invent Better, was fully remote or was partly remote. So why don’t you clarify that for me?
Mickael:
It’s completely remote. I have some of my colleagues in my company working in Italy and some are working in France. France and Italy, and me in Russia.
Luis:
Nice. Nice. So across three countries?
Mickael:
Yeah.
Luis:
Why do you think that was the good solution? Why did you decide to go with that setup?
Mickael:
First, I knew all those people before. I meet them in person. In France, I was working… I mean, I was at the University of. And for the one in Italy, I actually taught them android process there.
Luis:
Oh.
Mickael:
It was very nice. And some time after, I decide to ask them if they wanted to be part of that adventure.
Mickael:
I believe that that is much better because you can regulate your environment. You can be working where you want, in the office you want, and this way you can travel like you want.
Mickael:
I’m also a traveler, I love to move. I like to see different things, so for me that’s just the best.
Luis:
Nice. How long have you been having this setup? When did you start building the company, and when did you reach this team size?
Mickael:
I think it started different when I was working on Travel Better, and we were already a team. I was managing them, I think, it was maybe like two years ago. It was kind of odd because it was more on their own time. Some were at the university, some were working, like me. [inaudible 00:03:10] part-time, like we were arriving, meeting during the evening. It was more like this. It was quite odd at the beginning, but we start like this, working on our project. And a few months ago I took the decision to finally work like this, to launch it and to create the website of Invent Better, to do all these things and, yeah.
Luis:
So Travel Better came first, actually.
Mickael:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Luis:
Nice.
Mickael:
Yeah. Travel Better is actually not that easy because it was quite odd, because we wanted to do an app with it. We wanted to add the website and an app. We… I mean, I decided finally to focus on the website because at that moment it was impossible to ask everyone focus only, for example, like on the back end, or the front end, or…
Luis:
Yes.
Mickael:
It was really odd, so I tried to be on one direction and because of Invent Better and soon we will have some nice features with the development of Travel Better.
Luis:
All right. So take me through your typical day. I mean, you have people across three countries all counting on you, so obviously it requires a different kind of communication and scheduling, and different ways of keeping people accountable. So why don’t you take me through your typical day, and maybe even your typical week? How do you start your day, what meetings do you have? How do you keep your finger on the pulse of everyone that’s working for you?
Mickael:
Actually, in general, I have friends who have my [inaudible 00:05:08] because so far it has been a bit odd. I get used to this life here in Russia with the cold, the dark. There is not a lot of sun, but now I’m trying to wake up earlier, like at 6 or 7:00 AM, try to do some exercise, do [inaudible 00:05:29] at least once, which means you’re like fresh for the day. And afterwards, we try to use… In general, we use Signal platforms. We use [inaudible 00:05:42] for the meeting and the calls, because that’s platform working really, really well. We have used [inaudible 00:05:50] before, Skype, ITEA also, but [inaudible 00:05:54] is the one working the best, so it’s the one we prefer.
Mickael:
We are using Slack also to communicate inside of the team, to send any like call and any like text. Anything there, that’s very useful. And to launch the project we are using Trello because it’s quite easy to manage with. You don’t require a lot from all the [inaudible 00:06:24] so that’s the perfect combination. And, in general, we try to have a meeting during the day. We talk by message, or so. For some past calls, in general, we use WhatsApp since we are all in different countries, that’s for conference. And we try to work on different tasks and projects. And that’s kind of like this, we try to focus a bit more of time in [inaudible 00:07:02]. It’s a wonderful platform, so I try to spend a bit more time. And I start there a social networking a little bit for Travel Better. That’s the tricky part of [inaudible 00:07:13].
Luis:
Oh yeah, yeah. For sure.
Mickael:
And that’s typically like this.
Luis:
Okay. So I wanted to dive in a bit on Trello because I’m also a big Trello fan, and what I found out is that as I got more and more projects on the same team, as the marketing… I used to use it for editorial teams, so writing, and I still do. I still do for managing teams of writers because it’s very easy to set up if we’re going from point A to point B to point C, etc. kind of work flow. But on the marketing team I found a bit of a challenge of when there are several very different projects like, for example, preparing for a conference, building an ad campaign, building landing pages for a different kind of, for example, an email capture campaign, it started to me being a bit hard to keep track of all the progress and, yet, for people, even for the employees to give updates on their processes and what they’re doing, every time it was a bit…
Luis:
It felt like I, maybe I’m just badly organized, but it felt like I had a big mess of cards and then that compounds with the idea that it’s only… A card only allows you to schedule for one deadline, so if you had a project that had several different deadlines… So let’s say, a deadline for building the creatives, a deadline for building the boot, a deadline for sending invitations, you kind of needed different cards for each of those steps. So, I mean, how do you keep your Trello from being a mess. I guess that’s what my question is.
Mickael:
I don’t know if you do this but, in general, for new projects I create a new board, so this helps a bit because otherwise I can imagine that this will be a mess if we try to mix several projects. So I think the best is to create several boards. And after, I think that if you are like too many projects, maybe that’s better to move to Jira. I don’t know if you know it. And a Red platform, I think it lets you do more things there, especially for the task. You can have different tasks, and something another task, and I think this can be another solution, or so.
Mickael:
I know that at the moment when I need to use Jira, even if I consider it, that’s a part of my project. But finally I came back to something like [inaudible 00:10:11] even I love Jira and it was working there, that’s a [inaudible 00:10:17] so I think trading bots can be a good idea.
Luis:
Yeah. My problem with Jira is that it starts creating a lot of extra work for the team, right? It definitely has a bit more overhead in terms of documentation and check-ins, and all of that. But, I guess that maybe having separate boards for separate projects is a good idea.
Luis:
Also, so a couple of questions. So, when you have, I mean, I imagine that you have several different projects going on at every time. I mean, you do two things. So your company does two things. It does consulting, but it actually does app development as well.
Mickael:
Yes, yes.
Luis:
So obviously each project has… When I’m imagining your Trello, it probably has a lot of cards, and each card should be probably a task, correct?
Mickael:
Yes, yes.
Luis:
So when you want to have a conversation about any given card, do you have that conversation inside Trello, or inside that card, or do you just use Slack?
Mickael:
I think it depends, but after there is something with Slack that you can link everyone’s Slack so we can also talk about like [inaudible 00:11:39] on Slack and you can [inaudible 00:11:45]. Maybe it’s a bit more convenient than Trello because I think when you have a task in Trello, the comments section, I see it a bit more like a place where you can give some informations, or you can see [inaudible 00:12:04]. I think that can be good, and I think I’m more towards the items about the [specificas 00:12:13].
Luis:
That makes sense. I’m always trying to find an excuse to get back to Trello because I enjoy the thing so much. I mean, I’m really interested in knowing how people who manage their company through Trello do things because I really like the tool so much. But I’ve had a hard time as the business has grown. Okay, so moving a bit back, how do you go about setting the KPIs, or the kind of goals, for your team? Do you do it on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis? And then, how do you keep people accountable to them?
Mickael:
First of all, we start to do this a few months ago. We start to create more like camera shot for everyone, with like some stills on it and we were asking questions, “How do you feel? Do you feel comfortable on that? Do you feel comfortable on that?” And they were giving us like a mark, and we were talking about it. We are trying to discover which mark would be the best for that person. And we are doing this every month to make sure that is some progression, that they learn something. This is what they consider they actually learn something. And also like in English language because some are speaking French, Italian, so we keep English, so we all try to work like this and to improve ourself. And after, so I think directly the task for the week can be interesting, and we try to keep track on this. And it’s more like we try to say, “Okay, this week you will try to resolve this conference, you will this features.”
Mickael:
I manage to see which type for everyone, and it’s more on the weekly basis because in this way you can see more what is happening. During the day I think it’s like maybe too short. I don’t think it’s like a good idea but the on machine maybe we can be good for the day. It’s more like in the morning I like the daily meeting and say, “Okay, today I will do this.” And just try to keep on that and say, “Okay, that’s my goal for the day.” I try to finish that task and I will see if I can. If I can’t this means that there was a problem or instance of the program or the test, and I actually don’t have a solution. Sometimes it was one day but sometimes it takes two days so, yeah.
Luis:
That’s actually what we do in DistantJob. We have daily stand-ups. Like, I mean, I’m not saying that we do Scrum because that’s a whole different story. I’ve dealt with many Agile people and I can’t say that we follow any specific Agile guidelines, but we do have Adopted Scrum so every day we have a check-in where we say what we worked on yesterday, what we’re working on today, and if we have any blockers on the previous task. And we do that every day but we do it synchronicity because, I mean, I have people in Romania and I have people in South America and that means that getting everyone on video at the same time, we try to do that as often as possible but every day, it’s a bit too much. It’s a bit too much work to do it every day. So we basically have a scheduled question that pops up automatically for everyone on Slack and Basecamp. But, yeah, that’s definitely…
Luis:
You know what? I’ve found out that doing that is not, really not only great for keeping the team accountable, but actually for my own benefit. For organizing my own day because it forces me to, every day, go through the tasks that I need to get done. I know that some people are very disciplined about their “To Do” lists and their write their tasks for the next day, every day, on the previous day, but I could never build that habit so this is a good solution for me. To make it social, so I’m accountable.
Mickael:
Yeah, yeah, sure. And also, I guess, it can be also the time zone so to manage like this kind of meeting with everyone, with the video, that can be hard especially if there are people from South America. It’s a bit easier for me, there is only people in Europe, so that’s fine.
Luis:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s pretty easy. I mean, it’s like a two hour difference, right?
Mickael:
Yes, yes. Now, yeah.
Luis:
Okay. So I wanted to ask you about… So when you were telling me how you built your company, it feels like you really hired your friends. People that you liked, right? That’s great. I get the feeling that your company is… It’s kind of that family business vibe, right? It looks like you really hired your friends. Eventually, I hope, you will need to expand and you will need to hire more people. So what’s your plan for hiring people knowing that they will be working remotely? So, I mean, I guess that what I want to get to at this question, is what do you think is the skills, the qualities, the traits that make a person not only great at their job, but great at working remotely?
Mickael:
That’s a good question. I think first the country of the person matter a lot. I think it’s a bit odder since we are not in the same office, we are not in the same place. You need some people who can, let’s say, be at their self work, I can say. They need to be… I mean, to be able to talk in a good way, of course, like good English or so, written and spoken. That can be quite helpful if you want people to understand you. I think I’ve tried so, maybe it depends also the future of the person, so this can be also something you probably need to take care of. I think before I hire anyone else I think I will try to have some meeting with the person to make sure that this person can fit to our group, and to be sure that we not have any issues or anyone like fitting bad, because they are like on the team if there is someone, for example, talking like maybe not nicely, or like not doing the task, or not following what other people are saying.
Mickael:
Because I think that when you are doing… The experience when you are working for a company for some time, when you’re new at the company I think you should listen to other people, even if they are not like the one who manage, you should still like listen to them, and just try to understand why they are like asking you to do this and not that, and trying to go against it, because after this can lead to some tricky situation. So it’s better to ask some things.
Luis:
Right.
Luis:
Hey there. It’s Luis. Welcome to the intermission of the DistantJob podcasts. If you’re listening to this podcast, there’s a very big chance that you’re interested in building a great remote team. And to build a great remote team you need great remote employees. That’s where DistantJob comes in. So here’s how it works.
Luis:
You tell us the kind of position that you need to fill. We talk to you, we try to figure out not only what are the exact requirements that that person should have, but also we try to figure out who would be a perfect fit for your company culture, because we really believe that that matters. Then, once we have an exact picture of what we’re looking for, we’re off to the races where recruiters tap into their global network, and we filter people very well so that you don’t waste your time interviewing people that are never going to be of interest to you. We make sure, because we are techies and our recruiters are techies as well, so when people get to you they are already pre-selected and you just have to decide between the cream of the crop. And once you make your selection, we handle all the paperwork, we handle HR for you, we handle payments. And you get a full-time remote employee that’s among the best on the world and managed entirely by you, by your processes and following your culture.
Luis:
If this sounds good, visit us at www.distantjob.com. And without further ado, let’s get back with the show. Thank you for listening.
Luis:
So how do you deal with that, as a manager, as a leader? When you make the wrong hire. I mean, this is the position that everyone hates to be. You hire someone, you think it’s going to be great and then actually it happens that they’re not… You have that suspicion. You try to trust the people that work for you, but in the back of your mind there’s that suspicion that that person isn’t really working on what they’re supposed to be working. It’s kind of… They are always behind expectations. They deliver things later than they should deliver, they don’t complete as many tasks as you think a normal person should. And I’m not saying to be super demanding of people, to have a charitable interpretation of knowing some people are slower than others, but still you feel that that person is not fully present in the job. How do you face this situation, and what kind of things do you do?
Mickael:
First I think that when you work remotely, and especially in this kind of environment where everyone is somewhere else, you need to trust a complicated person because I think that the moment when you start… So the trust decreasing, I think this is like you’re defaulting. This is like, this is almost like a… I think, or we can get the practice with like a choice like Trello with like the limiting. Because, in general, with the limiting we say like, “Okay, I did that yesterday. I’m planning to do this today. Maybe I will have this kind of programs.” I trust the person to ask questions will allow to get all informations possible, and if really like someone is doing two tasks only, he said like he will do like four, and suddenly it was two, I think you really need to create a discussion to understand why you did only this. And the purpose is so that this person need to tell you why he didn’t meet super. I think it’s better if he tells you before you find out that there was only two tasks from out of four.
Mickael:
Because, of course, when someone will say, “I will do four tasks today.” You will keep track of this. It’ll be like, okay, so today [inaudible 00:24:23] you will be done with this, and tomorrow morning you will normally say, okay I have done all. I think the informations are the key. It’s really what is important and it’s a bit like you need to get to know everything so it’s a bit tricky, it’s not easy, but I think you maybe need to ask twice, or three times more questions than maybe usual.
Luis:
Got it. Got it. Yeah. Asking more questions is always a good idea. Following you on social media, I’ve discovered that you post a lot about work-life balance and taking proper care of yourself. You’re mentioning rise early and getting some exercise, and you were talking about that you were still getting used to not having a lot of sun, and stuff like that. I feel that this is really an important part of your… To live a healthy life apart from, obviously, you have to sacrifice some things when you’re building a business, but you need to take care not to sacrifice too much that you’re not at a good mental state. So I was wondering, how does this trickle down to your team? How do make sure that your team is also looking after themselves, and taking good care of themselves?
Mickael:
Actually, I know that some of them tell me that they are doing exercise in the morning, so that’s very good. And now that we’re talking about this, I think we maybe try to do like a kind of challenge, to do like some sports in the morning, or to do outside things because I think that the interesting… And maybe one or two minutes, like a morning session like kind of two girls… That would be interesting. But I want to focus on that, on the like model life and all and the body, it’s because I did not follow this program before because I was living in the south of France. It was sunny most of the time, it was warm, there was no problem, but since I came to live here, it’s like totally different environment and it’s quite cold out there and it’s quite odd to, for example, explore outside and everyone like…
Mickael:
Last year, for example, I had some problems this year because there was obviously not no sun and it was kind of like a bit depression because there was not enough sun. At the time this is very important, I’m finding out just a bit. And it’s because that now I’m trained to wake a bit earlier, to do some exercises and now I want go like outside at least once in the morning to take some air, be ready for the day, and I try to work and… Everyone like put some program on my laptop saying like, “If we are trying to do something like [inaudible 00:27:29], some kind of things.” So take a break at the same time, do a bit of sports for like two minutes, and this way is something good for you out, and that’s something people learn. Something that I try to solve because of this problem here, living here. It’s getting cold also. [crosstalk 00:27:54].
Luis:
Yeah. I can definitely feel that because I’ve invested a bit, just for convenience, I’ve invested a bit in having exercise equipment in my home. So now I work out at home, and it’s really nice because it’s really fits as a lifestyle, but I’ve discovered this has the big problem of I can spend several days without leaving the house. And it’s really hard to figure out that you’re missing sunlight and fresh air. It’s something that you don’t… You just feel bad and you don’t know why. And then when something forces you to go out of the house, you realize, “Well, I feel much better now.” Right?
Mickael:
It actually it is. You go out on that walk, fresh air, okay that’s good. That’s right. I’m not just… Some days I was like not going out, for a few days, and this is absolutely bad because when you’re working like in company, I mean, more like when you need to go to an office, you need to leave your flat, you need to take transport, you need to go somewhere, it’s actually like a regular work. But since we are working remotely, I think you need to really like be in a mood where like every morning, if you are standing to do some exercise at home, make some stretchings and stuff like this, it feels very good. At the same time, go out, you rest, you go out, you take some air, you walk like 20, 30 minutes.
Mickael:
That’s a good start of the day and also, something good is not to stay on with like… On some days, prefer to wear like a shirt or something. Because I think this is also important, to work, to be dressed like, not to stay like with your bedclothes. It’s more like the way you are working.
Luis:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I definitely feel that. I mean, I’m not saying that I never worked in my pajamas. Sometimes, when you’re sick, when you have a cold, or something like that and you’re really just are trying to work just to have a little bit of productivity, I can understand that. But, yeah, I always… The worst I’ve done is really just use my sports outfit, the clothes that I wear to work out. That’s the worst I’ve ever done. Usually I… It really feels nice to take… I mean, before, I mean, it’s morning, it’s certainly morning for me, right? Or it was when we started, anyway, and I actually woke up a bit later, so I couldn’t get my morning workout then I’m going to work out during the evening, but I still took a shower just because it’s… Before I start work it feels nice to take a shower and to put some actual people clothes instead of living like a caveman.
Mickael:
Yeah. That’s right. Afterwards it’s like when you do some sports in the morning, you should do… Wish you did something a bit more physical, like jump-frog, for example, take a shower so that it feels so good. You’re like fresh, ready for the day, and it feels very good. The sensation of sport in the morning and shower afterwards, it’s like the best.
Luis:
That’s absolutely true. Okay, so I want to jump into some rapid fire questions. The questions are rapid fire but the answers don’t have to be. Feel free to answer as long as you want, how you feel. So you started your company relatively recently, so what’s the best or hardest lesson that you learnt during the starting up your company?
Mickael:
That’s a good question. Actually, I don’t really know. I don’t really have the answer to this. It’s quite new. I think just organize yourself very well. I think it’s part of it also, to create… I think information, to organize. I mean it’s a bit like this, try to get all informations possible, to organize yourself for the coming tasks you need to do, or magic in that sense. Try to ask a lot of questions, if you want any kind of services, or so. You need to prepare yourself well I think if you are doing anything.
Luis:
Okay. It sounds good. So what about… Let’s talk about, again, your employees. If you could buy something in bulk, it needs to be the same thing for everyone, but if you could spend 100 Euros with each person that works for you, and you needed to give the same thing to everyone, what would you give them?
Mickael:
That’s a good question. That’s a very good question. What about some equipment, like sport equipment to do sport at home, and this way we can all do sports. That can be a good one. Because we like sports so maybe something that can also help your colleagues to feel a bit better, if you try to take care of that also. So maybe this can be a good idea, some sport equipment. After I don’t see it yet.
Luis:
What about you? What purchase in the last year, or even six months, has made your work-life easier or more productive.
Mickael:
We bought a robot with my wife and that’s much better.
Luis:
You bought a what?
Mickael:
A robot. A vacuum robot and that’s pretty… One of the best purchase of the year, I think.
Luis:
Really? Wow. That’s so funny. I mean, I… So actually, send a link. Send over the link and I’ll include it in the show notes, of the robot you bought because I’m going to tell you I have talked about that many times, but I had a really hard time choosing one because firstly they’re all relatively expensive. For instance, they’re usually something from 400 to 500 Euros, so it’s definitely a purchase that you need to consider. And then, when I go look for reviews online or watch videos, I just see videos of the thing getting stuck below a chair. It really is a bit of scary purchase.
Mickael:
Yeah, yeah. That’s right. The thing is that first it’s very useful because we have parquet. We have a parquet for the floor and it’s crazy because it gets dirty so fast. If you don’t clean just the dust every two days you just see it. It’s not nice to see something, so this useful. The thing is that before that there is a bit of problems that it sometimes you see some are expensive but they don’t really discuss. When you try to compare, when you try to get permissions, that’s not like… The one we found, the best one was the one from Xiaomi, the China one.
Luis:
Yeah. They’re a great company. I mean, I’ve never used their products but everyone speaks so highly of their products.
Mickael:
Yeah. Actually, it’s really good and a really good quality. The only thing that you need to do before using it, you said about the robot getting stuck with the chair, it’s actually a toy, so it’s kind of you need to prepare the flat before cleaning. So you need to put the chair on the table and stuff like this. Like this way you are sure that you will not have any problems, but that’s why the robot gets stuck with the chair. When you not take the normal chair, it’s a bit problem, but it’s saving so much time when you think about it, because I don’t have a vacuum and, honestly, when you see the difference of the robot working and you when you do it, it’s like out of the league. [crosstalk 00:36:50].
Luis:
I have the same problem because I live in a very rural area and so it gets dusty when cars go by on the street and it’s easy for dust to come in, and all of that, so yeah. This is the first time someone has recommended a vacuum robot on the show but, look, when you work from home you need your home to be clean. That’s important.
Mickael:
The thing is that you are spending most of the time here so that’s where you’re working in.
Luis:
Exactly.
Mickael:
And the thing is that sometimes it taking so much time to just clean the flat, and especially because with parquet you can see the dust like very easily. I mean, it cannot be I clean every day because that’s really like … Can see it sometimes, so having a robot is like the greatest solution.
Luis:
All right. So, another question. What books or books have you gifted the most? Or if you don’t give books, what books have influenced you the most?
Mickael:
I’m not really a book person, obviously. I don’t read a lot. The only book I read worth something actually was one of The Journey to the Center of the Earth, which was very interesting since I really love traveling, it was like came off like the same subject. And it was very, very nice. As for books, I don’t really have any preferences. I guess maybe I would give something related to try rectify a thing. If I had to share something, like to discover whatever you like. Lifestyle, or something like this because when you travel you understand more things and it change you also as a person, and you get to see many pictures, so I think that will be different for something oriented to traveling.
Luis:
Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And by the way, the travel classic is from Jules Verne as well. It’s 80 Days in Balloon, or whatever it’s… I don’t know if that’s the actual translation, [crosstalk 00:39:17] but yeah, that’s to me, when I think about traveling and books, especially fiction books, that is one of the greatest travel stories ever told. But since you’re not the book person, how do you… What is your favorite way of educating yourself and what ways of educating yourself do you recommend to people?
Mickael:
I prefer details, actually. I read also like [inaudible 00:39:44]. There is like some tutorials, so like within tutorials can be like very interesting. Just I think, because first depends because some tutorials they just talk way too much for me. I’m like, “Okay, so go ahead. Let’s do it.” And there’s way too much talking and so it’s boring for me. And things like, YouTube is a good platform so because there is a lot of resource there. You can find lots, but as I remember there is the platform… I forget the name. I don’t remember the name but I know that I used it in the past and there was some interesting tutorial up there. I just…
Luis:
Link it in, maybe?
Mickael:
Yeah, yeah. I think… Lynda. Lynda. Lynda was really great. I watched a couple of videos there and it’s great.
Luis:
Awesome. Awesome. So final question. Let’s say that you are hosting a dinner where, in a Chinese restaurant by the way, where you are inviting all the top CEOs and CTOs from tech companies, decision makers, hiring managers etc. for a round table about remote work, and the future of work. And because it’s at the Chinese restaurant you get to decide the message that goes inside the Chinese fortune cookies. So what is the message that you are delivering over dinner to all these people from tech companies?
Mickael:
That’s a good one. That’s a good one. I need to find like a little quote, a little something that I need to create right now.
Luis:
[inaudible 00:41:52]. This is always the biggest pause in the podcast for everyone, so don’t worry.
Mickael:
Yeah. I know this kind of sometimes says by the way there is some pretty good ones. I think I would talk about something like future, or like to take care of the world, your environment, to impact it, or something like that.
Luis:
That’s actually… I mean, remote work helps cut a lot of emissions and saves space in every…
Mickael:
By the way, let’s go remote, it’s better for the planet.
Luis:
That’s good. That’s good. It’s better for the planet.
Mickael:
I have a better one. Go remote, it is better for your planet.
Luis:
Aah. Nice. Okay. Thank you for that, and thank you for the conversation and for coming. It was very nice. I had a lot of fun.
Luis:
So for everyone listening, if they want to continue the conversation with you, or if they want to know more and maybe hire the services of Invent Better, where can they find you? Where can they follow you, where can they talk with you, and how can they reach the company?
Mickael:
Okay, so we have the LinkedIn in my personal LinkedIn which Mickael Romaniello. And also we have the website, so you can get some informations there, and actually can write more contents on our website. Also, if you want to interact about Trello we are the Twitter of Trello and, yeah, we have the [inaudible 00:43:50]. We prefer our Twitter, but LinkedIn is the best if people want to refer us or ask us questions about what we do.
Luis:
Okay. That’s awesome. So I will include all those links in the show notes, and have a great day. Get some sun. I loved talking to you. Thank you.
Mickael:
Yeah. Me too. I return to get some sun but there is no sun. Have a great day. Thank you.
Luis:
You too.
Luis:
And so we close another episode of the DistantJob podcast. And, if you enjoyed the episode, please, you can help us out by sharing it on social media. That would be great. It’s how we reach more listeners and the more listeners we have, the more awesome guests I can get in touch and convince to participate in these conversations that are a joy to have for me, and I hope they’re a joy for you to listen to, as well. You can also help a lot leaving reviews on iTunes or your podcast syndication service of choice. Reviews are surprisingly helpful in helping the podcast get to more listeners. Now, another thing that you might want to do is go to distantjob.com/blog/podcast, click on your favorite episode, any episode really, and subscribe.
Luis:
By subscribing, you will get a notification whenever a new episode is up, and whenever we get the transcripts of the episode up so you can actually peruse the conversations in text form. And, of course, if you need to find a great employee for your team, a great remote employee, you should take the whole world into consideration and not just look to hire locally. Not just look to hire in your country. Look around the whole world because that’s the talent pool that contains the best talent. And to help you with that, again, distantjob.com is the perfect place to start.
Luis:
You will tell us who you need and we will make sure that you get the best possible candidate. 40% faster than the industry standard. And with that, I bid you adieu. See you next week, on the next episode of DistantJob podcast.
